that’s a cool way to test!
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I think the only thing we can all agree on is that we can’t all agree! For that reason alone, user-customizable gestures seem to be the only way forward here.
For me, the need to ‘tap into individual gestures and assign your preference of actions or disable them’ is critical. Pre-built, locked templates will still frustrate, much like in video games where the controller mapping can only be one of a few predetermined options.
Giving users the list of actions and the ability to freely select the gesture that triggers them should mean that everyone’s preference is covered.
Regarding the icon, I can see the logic at play here but (obviously) that gesture isn’t actually a valid one within the app, which makes it feel a little incongruous. Worse, the transparency in the check mark makes it look… dirty(?) somehow? Like it’s sort of smeared.
Maybe it would work better with a completely flat background colour, but in any case, I’m not sure the gesture-based nature of the app necessarily needs flagging in the icon itself. However, you may, erm… disagree… 
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The mockup looks really interesting! Customizable gestures really do seem to be the best solution here. New users and “casual” users can stick with the default settings and not think anything of it; “power” users can get the exact setup they want and it doesn’t matter if it’s different than what a different user prefers (as someone who would get rid of that darn back button so fast… 
), everyone is actually happy because the app is responding in the way that works best for them and how they specifically use Clear.
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As a person who keeps nagging you about switching between lists, the customizable gestures look like a great option! And vertical edge swipes sound like an interesting gesture; I think I could get used to that.
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í miss the good old days when the list was long though. the only one i have left (apart from gift ones) is transcended.
Im sure i wasnt the only one (but will everyone admit) who the minute i realised it was midnight or i woke up in the morning, it was like a routine. open clear, add a reminder. move it between lists. quickly add a load of reminders and swipe them all. set an alarm. change icon. open shop. take a snapshot of list. etc… to tick off another one for every reward i still had to work towards.
it was fun, and it tought me how to use the app, and it gave me engagement with the app, without that i might have not bothered to keep it.
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I too had my Clear morning ritual for the rewards. Got very proficient at it by the end and it increased engagement for me in a positive way. Transcended reward is at 54% progress today.
I love the idea of the customisable gestures. Looks good.
On a side note, 1Password has an area in the settings called Labs. This lets users get early access and test new features. I think this approach could work well with Clear to soft launch new features. It would save having to mess around with TestFlight and losing Shop access. By default, the core app can be kept simple for newcomers and perhaps hide the “Labs” section, showing/hiding it with a URL on this forum. My main thinking is that this would reduce the feeling of taking things away if they don’t quite work out as intended. Just a (borrowed) idea.
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same, though I parceled them out a bit. I still have transcended and planner (that’s one I’ve been saving) and early bird…but that’s because I am not one lol
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I love this too but as a gamer I also love Elden Ring and From’s stuff where it’s more mysterious and hidden vs. more Ubisoft if you know what I mean. Really admire the kind of conviction they have of say building an entire secret area and being totally OK with 90% of players running past its hidden entrance without knowing, it really makes your imagination go wild.
And as an app, would like people to take it in as a beautiful tool first, and then the optional fun and collectible game starts unfolding for those into it.
@psychris we were dabbling with a version of this at some point I feel in 2.0 beta, but I like the idea of the URL unlock. (If we did something like that it really really needs to be something where people are reasonable about promising but not 100% experiments being axed.)
The syncing and collab will require some real testing ahead of official launch when we are promoting it. So thinking about some kind of URL unlock testing phase outside of TestFlight.
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I like the idea of giving users a set of options they can select for going back… I personally don’t mind the invisible back button but would be open to try out other gestures if made available as options.
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I like the “labs” approach instead of test flight… I would have loved to use test flight but don’t want to risk messing anything up with my lists in regular version so am steering clear from any test flight builds of apps I use every day like Clear… but if early access features were added to regular app and labeled as such in the settings, I see no harm in trying the features… unless said early feature were to corrupt my lists then I would hate it lol…
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Thank you, Jaxson, for putting into words almost exactly how I feel as well. Development should be spent on returning the iCloud backup and the ability to sync between devices which most early adopter Clear users so dearly miss. Reminiscing here a bit, I first downloaded and starting using Clear when it was offered as a free download at a coffee chain store (maybe Starbucks).
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Is the current UI really that bad? Redoing everything that drastically so soon after “2.0” just feels like a lack of confidence in what’s been built.
If the issue is that no one knows the invisible back button exists, wouldn’t making it visible by default be a simpler solution?
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Back button I feel kind of brute force checks off a lot, but not in a particularly elegant way.
But I will also note Apple announced iOS 18 will let you double tap the ‘home bar’ to type to Siri. That’s going to get a lot of people tapping in that general area and become a conflict so… I think we need to get this done. (And the edge swipe down is better I think!)
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Have you considered single-thumb zoom gesture from maps? At least it is something already in the system UI language.
So tap-scroll (like normal scroll) scrolls list items, but tap-tap-scroll scrolls the list itself. Or maybe it’s a faster scroll, so one could jump to bottom of the list and tap to add.
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Hadn’t considered that, tbh kind of forgot about it myself though it’s clearly quite useful in Maps one handed! I wonder if they onboard this for first time people.
I think the drawback with this one is similar to when we had quickly checked out a double tap to go back – it now needs to wait after a tap to see if you’re trying to do this which would mean a delay on tapping to edit (which didn’t feel great).
Definitely pipe in if anyone here has an interesting idea, this is the kind of thing where fresh eyes and different perspectives can really help scout out the entire possibility space. And maybe some of the ideas could be useful in other contexts or the future, like a personalizable gesture.
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You’re right! I’ve checked maps.app and there’s noticeable lag when you tap on POI or something.
Yeah, that’s a no-no, unless it’s possible to "undo” on second tap instead of waiting. Meaning, the primary action stays immediate, but tap-tap-scroll is possible even if with slight shakiness, which might be tolerable given it’s a secondary (only used in certain circumstances) gesture.
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Having been super busy the last month and a half I’m just now seeing this thread. This is exciting and I look forward to the opportunity to test beta features. Of all the apps I test for developers Clear has had me hooked since it was released and I have to say Phil, et al have been extremely open and responsive to thoughts and ideas while rebuilding the current Clear 2!
Can’t wait to see how this pans out.
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I think your concerns over the double tap for Siri keyboard are unfounded and you’re overcorrecting for a problem you’re worried “might” be an issue.
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The invisible back button sits far enough above the home bar that I don’t think anyone will be accidentally activating Siri. Just watching videos of the iOS 18 betas it seems like you have to deliberately be hitting the bottom edge of the phone to activate it. There’s a definite sweet spot for the back button that isn’t really near the home bar, relatively.
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Even if the proximity is close enough to activate it, I think the double tap is too quick to accidentally do when backing out in Clear. Sure it could happen but realistically no one is double tapping that fast to get back to the top layer. If they are they’ll learn after a mistake or two.
The invisible back button is genuinely one of my favorite aspects of this app and I think killing it is a mistake. I love not having to swipe around to get where I’m going like so many other apps do. When I swipe from the edge in other apps, sometimes it takes a few times to trigger it or I get frustrated and have to reach across my screen to hit a back button that’s up in a far corner. In Clear, the back button always works, every single time. It’s so usable that I find myself trying to use it in other apps all the time.
Again, it feels like you’re stuck in a weird developer headspace where you’re “innovating” just to innovate, because it feels like you have to do something new and “elegant.” What Clear is now is plenty elegant.
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Personally I hate the back button, but I completely agree I don’t understand where a lot of changes are coming from for an app that already feels very polished and finished, and where it’s more the remaining major features—sync, custom gestures, a web or Mac app, etc.—that are what users are waiting for (patiently or otherwise). Most anything else feels like it could just be a small update down the line rather than focusing on a major overhaul of the app.
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Sync and web version (+ collab which shares the same infrastructure) has been basically 80% of our development work the past several months. I’ll share more updates there as we get closer but right now:
• We have basic syncing up and running with Clear iOS but there are still bugs and edge cases to work out, and needs to be more totally applied to lists level, archive etc.
• Similar with basic collaborative listing
• As of last night, we have a build with very placeholder account signup, and being able to login from Web Clear prototype to access/edit your lists
If it helps put things in perspective, many of the other things I floated (say killing List Library, making rewards secret, that kind of stuff) are in comparison, relatively trivial engineering efforts. Worth discussing on the design side, but it’s like 5% of Clear X’s time budget that is set aside for that stuff, and more as final calls/polish towards the end of development probably.
Gesture/navigation experiments, it pairs with personalizable gestures… if we ship that feature, I feel it’s required responsible work for us to scout out the gesture space and scrutinize it thoroughly during its development. It definitely becomes only harder to consider revising or updating gestures after people are personalizing them.
@Jaxson I would like you to try a beta later this summer when we are testing personalizable gestures. We actually have some real knack for discovering gestures that are ‘so usable I find myself trying to use it in other app all the time’ as you describe the back button.
(People have said similar things about pull to add/go back, pinch to insert, 3D Touch to go back during very early 2.0 alphas RIP, etc.)
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