Just chiming in for another vote to keep pull to add. Switching to a two finger tap sounds very unintuitive and against Clear’s feel in general idk.
And another vote to keep a visible rewards list. It didn’t kill the sense of curiosity and it was exciting to work towards and look forward to all the cool goodies to unlock and made me use the app more. I doubt id care or bother looking at the forums just trying to get tips on unlocks if they were to be hidden away. Those who don’t want to see it can just …not open it?
As long as I add items to my list, re-order as needed and “check them off” I’m happy.
Change makes me nervous because I lost everything after a major change to the app. I did get it back, but those were some dark days.
Yeah I want to be careful here, plenty of time to sleep on things.
With navigation and gesture ideas, there’s only so many gesture functions we can squeeze into Clear without it becoming cluttered and more confusing or harder to learn.
But of course different people have different priorities here. New person, priority is probably instant obviousness to get going. For some of you, you prefer current gestures that you’ve been using for many years. Others chiming in here use Clear one-handed way more than I imagined etc.
Starting to think it might be impossible to cleanly solve this (a single elegant gesture set to rule them all, for everyone) without more room to maneuver.
So personalizable gestures are on my mind again over the weekend… We experimented with this last year during beta but felt like we didn’t have the bandwidth to properly finish it up for launch. Maybe it could help square this circle.
@VO3 realize it might sound paranoid but with Clear’s minimalist side I am worried about people stumbling into it and immediately getting the impression that this is a very complicated app, with a lot of information that has to be ingested to get going etc. Could ignore it after but it’s also like you can’t ‘unsee’ that, and then may feel like you are missing important info by ignoring it.
We were doing some testing here with people brand new to Clear and there is a surprising amount of information you need to take in and figure out at the start, to start going with Clear… and everything else in that context becomes a possibly derailing distraction
New around here so apologies if this is a little harsh for a new post.
I’ve been using Clear daily to keep track of a ton of different things and it genuinely has made my life easier. My scattered thoughts or things that end up as background noise in my life are all in one spot and I can keep track of them while feeling rewarded/accomplished thanks to how Clear has worked for me over the last few months. I got this comfortable with Clear because of the rewards system being visible in the app. It gave me a plethora of new ways to try and use Clear and helped me in setting habits by encouraging me to keep checking back and work towards certain goals.
I think removing the visibility of the rewards is a mistake, you’re killing any encouragement or enticement to continue using Clear in new ways in exchange for the “wondering” how to use your app and people being “delighted” when they figure it out on their own. It feels like “innovating” because you feel you have a good idea when in reality you’re trying to “fix” something that isn’t broken.
Almost everything else you’ve described in your pursuit to simplify Clear 2 in the move to Clear X feels this way as well.
Kill List Library for now, with some plans to bring back later with Clear Web
Why kill something you plan on bringing back? Seems like unnecessary work in the name of “improving” the app down the line.
Move Shop into Personalize
Honestly I don’t think you need to mess with or declutter the highest level. It’s so easy for users to understand that they’re not in their own lists here and having all the options laid out is much nicer than digging through menus to find out what is available. Hiding things like this is the opposite of simple.
Simple How To list with linked video demos
in fairness, this is a good idea. I found this forum today because I was looking up how to grab multiple items in a list (because of one of the awards told me this was possible, I might add) and couldn’t find a simple way to see how to do it while I was in the app.
Frankly the new navigation features you’ve described, and shown in the demo video above look and sound very, very clunky. The way Clear works now is very intuitive and smooth. Anything with double thumbs or requiring two hands at all is overcomplicating a process that is already as simple as can be in the existing app. The removal of the back button is very silly, the back button is probably my second most used function behind swiping to check things off. It’s simple and clean since it’s hidden, yet once you learn about it (again, probably through rewards) it makes so much sense and feels like a fun secret that is very functional.
All in all, Clear works very well now. I was sad and disappointed tonight to stumble upon this forum and learn that you’re essentially ditching everything that has made Clear unique, simple, and endlessly usable to me so far in favor of re-innovating (again) for this new Clear X idea.
I hope this doesn’t fall on deaf ears but you guys have a great app here already, it onboarded me and several others with no issues and strikes a perfect balance between very clearly communicating the simple and unobtrusive idea your team was originally going for and enticing and encourage people to use and continue to use the app. Redoing everything again in the name of chasing that dragon is silly because you’re already there, it’s even sillier if you’re going to follow through on some of these clunky ideas.
I like the back button and per list personalization. Would be super disappointed to see those removed
Clear is about simplicity, sure — in terms of the UI being driven by intuitive gestures instead of a cluttered interface. Simplicity doesn’t mean lack of functionality, which is where this update seems headed and it seems like this is reactionary to noisy complaints from a vocal minority
A lot of issues really do feel like they could be solved with a complication to turn something on/off, or to bring back gesture customization like has been discussed. Seems the simplest way to address different needs and uses for the app by different people, and to allow the Clear team to design the app in whatever way they think is clear (heh) and intuitive for new users, while not alienating or discouraging existing ones.
Just going to have to weigh gesture personalization as a big possible Pandora’s box to open that we could never take back afterwards. It could be the solution here, but it’s also a big winkle to add in itself. But I am curious on the best form that feature could take.
@purple let’s see where things start to settle later. The simplication list is more stuff we’re still considering and weighing out.
There is some real tradeoff with simplicity over more functions. Goal here is maximizing the relevant usefulness and functions and such with the most simple and intuitive possible silhouette, so it’s like trying to increase that ratio. And for it to feel elegant, it can’t be overwrought, or too abstract, etc.
@Jaxson it sounds like you got into Clear with the relaunch? I’m curious how you were introduced to it, was it a friend rec or something?
I think if you are the kind of person who enjoys poking around and exploring and figuring something out, and in a place where you have some bandwidth to obsess a bit over this new tool you find interesting, it works and is probably a breath of fresh air. Basically the throw out the manual types, including myself and probably most of you all chiming in this thread.
But, I do think this asks a lot of people and filters many out before they get a chance to fall in love with it, and much to gain by connecting better there.
I am once again asking for some gesture that lets you switch from one list to the next (like the edge swipes in Clear 1), rather than having to use the back button to jump out to “My Lists” and then drill back down into an individual list. The gesture doesn’t have to be an edge swipe, but having some way to jump between adjacent lists would be really helpful.
I will say the vertical edge swipes we were experimenting with could pair with this, especially in a personalizable gestures world. Feels better IMO than horizontal edge swipe without grating the corner, and matches the vertical organization of our lists.
I am a new user since the relaunch. What turned me onto the app was this article from The Verge. The app as described sounded like exactly what I was looking for. A simple and customizable way to make a to-do list that I could check off as I went or at the end of my day, and easily add things to. Opening the app for the first time and finding the rewards was the push I needed to keep using it at first. They were a unique idea and seeing that they were there and achievable gave me something to look forward to while also organizing my thoughts and lists. Everything else felt pretty intuitive, and even when it didn’t, the rewards pointed me in the right direction. Not saying linked “how to” videos won’t also point users in the right direction but you 1) lose the sense of “fun in teaching” that the rewards offer and 2) you’re directing people out of your app to learn about using your app, when you already have a perfectly functional way to teach them that doesn’t require leaving Clear to learn.
Towards the end of the article I shared it mentions that you were worried about making new things that make Clear worse just for the sake of making new things. That’s kind of what it feels like you are doing with Clear X.
The biggest ongoing work right now is for syncing infrastructure for cross device syncing and collaborative listing, additions that will make Clear more useful/accessible generally.
Something like videos vs. rewards list and their tradeoffs on teaching, I do think you would be surprised (like I was) handing it blind to new people to figure out. We really have work to do there and some things to reconsider to up the ‘graduation rate’ and teach/hook without overwhelming or confusing too many.
And finally in my defense, I will note the increased focus on rewards was a new idea for Clear that some fans do think made Clear worse But that you really enjoyed it points towards new ideas being worth exploring!
What matters in the end is if they are the right ideas and well executed. Hopeful we will figure out a good set between the team and community feedback/ideas here.
It seems to me that a decent compromise here could be to hide the rewards when a user first installs the app, and only reveal it to them after they’ve used it for a short time. Some kind of extended onboarding flow I guess. I’m thinking of video games that gradually teach you more and more systems as you play. Maybe something similar could work for the Rewards screen?
I don’t understand why there can’t be both rewards and how-to videos. The rewards are there to motivate people who gain motivation from rewards; the videos are there for people who simply want to be taught.
Like the goal I’d think is that people 1. use the app and 2. want to and CAN learn its features; and neither rewards by themselves nor how-to videos by themselves are going to do that for everyone.
There’s not really a good reason it can’t be both, because anyone can choose to ignore a feature they don’t care about, but if they don’t want to and can’t use the app (due to either lack of reward motivation or simple instructional steps/videos), it won’t matter anyway.
Games are a good model and inspiration in general for onboarding. I do think a number of these things, it’s ultimately a question of them unfolding their layers better in a more targeted way like that. TBH I just felt like we lack the bandwidth this summer to elegantly solve that, but I agree the eventual solution is probably along those lines, and maybe there is something simple that works.
@aftershocked to be clear the thought was making rewards ‘secret’, so they would all remain in place but more hidden like that. This is a version of it layering in as you go, in that you’d quickly enough unlock a first secret reward, and then get curious (if you are into these collectibles) and look it up if you prefer, or move forward with some surprises to anticipate.
My biggest issue with the current list is it is monstrously long, agree it’s not a huge deal to ignore it if you’re already into the app but I guess it is really that newcomer context where it feels dangerous? Very easily tip towards derailing/intimidating vs. the other way around depending on the type of person.
And I like restoring the option to experience these as more mysterious surprises to anticipate.
I feel like I understand what you’re saying about not wanting to overwhelm new users–and I wonder if there’s a way to reach out to new users and actually ask them?
at the same time, I am quite opposed to hiding the rewards list and/or having things that folks only know if they hit the right google search (which is harder and harder) to find this forum. It feels exclusionary
I apparently had lots of rewards in og clear, but had no idea they were there, because there were no popups (I know, I know, that’s on me!). for new clear and the beta, it encouraged me to try things that I hadn’t before, some of which I’m still using. for me, if I open an app and it has things I don’t want to look at or use, I just don’t, and I think clear’s structure makes that very possible. for example, I don’t care about the lists library at all. I played with it in beta and occasionally go look at it to see if I want to use a template, but I just don’t use that part. I don’t mind it being there, I don’t mind if you take it away.
lots of my lists are long (so a long rewards list doesn’t bother me at all, though I can see how it could intimidate folks), which is also where my one handed use comes in. I scroll a list in the grocery store or in a meeting. and, watching the video, my concern is that I would accidentally back out of a list.
I really like the invisible back button, and almost never accidentally hit it–maybe because I have small hands and scroll to one side? clearly the og clear long swipe to go back isn’t something that I used enough to internalize, because I never got back out to personalization and rewards lol. but the button feels more elegant to me than pull to go back. I suspect that if you polled everyone, we’d be split on it
You’re getting each person’s take and I appreciate you sharing your plans and getting our thoughts and experiences, no matter what happens
This doesn’t actually reflect what the ‘Newcomer’ preset might be but you could tap into individual gestures and assign your preference of actions or disable them.
Would still try to replace the back button in this pass though, I think the edge swipe actually works well for that. (Accessible anywhere without getting in the way nearly as much.)
For now with new user testing we had actually used a service where we pay some testers to run through it while recording the screen and their audio/thoughts. Obviously not 100% representative of the average new person to Clear but still pretty eye opening. (There were of course some people in this group that seemed to fall in love with it vs. feeling confused, but not enough!)
But that you really enjoyed it points towards new ideas being worth exploring!
