I’m pretty much thinking along the same lines here.
Subscription for hosted things like shared lists and theme updates, etc.
For the base Clear app, if the only option was to have a subscription I’d start looking for an alternative.
I’d be happy with a reasonable up-front cost to buy the app, with the expectation that if there is a major release, I’d have to buy it again. On the assumption it’s not having a major release every month of course.
I basically created an account to chime in on this topic, too. 
Please mark me as another person who would love a non-subscription option in any shape or form. Perhaps a lifetime option that costs extra for additional cosmetic changes (themes, sounds packs, fonts), but folks who pay for the monthly/annual subscription have that included?
I know other people aren’t fans of locked premium content, but I would be more bummed if a subscription were the only option.
I just started using Waterllama to track my water consumption in a fun way and I had no intention of paying for in-app purchases.
Well, the app was so much fun, so well designed, that when a little unobtrusive pop up told me that I could have a lifetime subscription for half of the regular price, I easily and quickly clicked OK! (The robot overlords know me so well.)
Even so… there are additional ways to support the devs with one-time or Patreon-like recurring payments. And there’s other creative ways to keep a steady income flowing while providing the user base choices. And with Clear fans being SO dedicated, I think this model would be appropriate.
On our side we are probably shooting for two main goals:
• Clear is free to use or download and try in some way. I know we have paid for apps, but there are way too many people who have never bought a single app up front! (And we all have one of those friends.) We want to make it as low friction as possible to give it a try, I feel that you have to play with the app to start understanding its value.
• Clear makes sustainable recurring revenue, mostly from longterm daily listers who get the most value out of the app.
Some form of subscription would address these, but I will say we have always been curious if it would be possible to pull it off leaning more on IAP cosmetics. It’s interesting to me that it’s an angle only Clear could even consider among apps in the category.
But I imagine at the end of the day many or most users wouldn’t care enough about them, so it would have to be selling cosmetics very well to the people who do.
P.S. I have been reading every post here, appreciate you all providing your perspectives more as customers while also considering our shoes and the sustainable business side.
In the past, I’ve vacillated between Clear, Cultured Code’s Things, and plain old pen and paper. While my experience with the beta has made me excited to stick with Clear, if core functionality becomes subscription-only, I will reduce that list to two options. With sadness, but also with great ease.
Having said that, I think the hybrid model that some developers offer, where users can choose a subscription or a more expensive one-time purchase, can be a great way to make everyone happy. Information Architects (the folks behind iA Writer and now iA Presenter) published an intriguing article about this in the lead-up to the release of Presenter. It offers some great insights into where subscriptions work, who they work for, what new and veteran users are willing to pay for, and so on. Recommended reading for the Clear team.
I struggle to understand how eagerly some of today’s users will sign up to have someone take their money every month for the mere privilege of continuing to use a thing. Some developers have been all too eager to take advantage of that and advance towards the “you will own nothing” world that Louis Rossmann talks about so often. I’m incredibly grateful for the ones that haven’t lost sight of the concept of, you know, buying a thing and owning it.
Would absolutely hate subscription. iAP ad removal (cost of app if it weren’t free?) and cosmetics options with a tip option alongside them seem like the things that would bug me the least.
Great piece from iA. They’re definitely a team that tries to do things with principles and more indie in the way we’d like to as well.
And tangential, but when working on the original Clear we had an internal manifesto that was kind of about how our real competition was simple pen and paper lists. Still see that experience as our main competition
I am a big fan of Agenda’s pricing model: Cash Cow Revisited. For a while now, the other half of the… | by Drew McCormack | Medium
I totally get, I really do. But the subscription model is often an All-Or-Nothing situation (e.g., Adobe). But Waterllama like I said earlier is doing it pretty well w/o subscriptions, using other ways to support that seem more like altruistic crowdsourcing. They make it feel like you’re supporting the developers, not renting the software.
I think one key here is that when some folks are saying subscription, they are thinking about monthly, and others are thinking annually.
I am vehemently anti-monthly subscription, but I’d be here for a reasonably priced (to me that’s $20 or less) annual subscription. a good model for me that jumps out here is the calm app–they have lots of stuff in the free version, and annual subscriptions (though I’m locked in at a lower annual subscription than they currently offer bc I was a fairly early adopter–also potentially an option)
I would not use it at all with ads (though that doesn’t sound like an option y’all are even considering)
I like the extras–new themes and etc, and I like “earning” them. I also had no clue I was doing that in the old version, because I didn’t get notices about it somehow. What this says to me is that if y’all went with one price (or free) for the main bits of the app and then paid for cosmetic extras, I would probably never buy those. I don’t mind that model at all, but it wouldn’t encourage me to further support devs by paying.
I have also used clear long enough that a higher tier lifetime subscription is something that I would consider, but whether I could do it would depend
having seen some folks on low/fixed income chime in here, I wonder if there isn’t also a way to have folks donate subscriptions or have a full free option that folks just have to ask for (sort of like some folks do with their paid substack/podcast/etc)
but really, I’d encourage specifically asking folks what sort of subscriptions they’d be open to and defining subscription. maybe a poll through the email updates with specific options and a box for further explanation?
I am vehemently anti-monthly subscription, but I’d be here for a reasonably priced (to me that’s $20 or less) annual subscription. a good model for me that jumps out here is the calm app–they have lots of stuff in the free version, and annual subscriptions (though I’m locked in at a lower annual subscription than they currently offer bc I was a fairly early adopter–also potentially an option)
I feel like a subscription model makes more sense as the standard pricing model for meditation apps like Calm and Balance (which I use) because they’re regularly updated with new content. The app isn’t just a glorified audio file player with an unchanging library.
I have also used clear long enough that a higher tier lifetime subscription is something that I would consider, but whether I could do it would depend
I wouldn’t love a subscription as the standard model, but I’d overlook it if I could take a lifetime option. Somewhat unusually for an app with regular content updates, Balance actually has a lifetime option that it offered me after I had used it for a couple years. I’m not sure if it had always been there and I just never looked for it, or if it’s only available now and then and you have to act quickly to get it, but I switched from an annual subscription to that when it came up for me.
but really, I’d encourage specifically asking folks what sort of subscriptions they’d be open to and defining subscription. maybe a poll through the email updates with specific options and a box for further explanation?
I create surveys and analyze data from them for work. I’m a freelancer—Clear team, DM me if y’all want to hire me!
That’s good to know! We have sometimes wondered about surveys here or there. (A little more with Heads Up than Clear but yeah.)
So some update from here, we are pretty interested now in starting with a shop with optional/premium collectibles for sale. (Themes and app icons to start probably.)
We want to try this because we feel it’s something only we could really try in this category vs. other more traditional todo apps. And also because there’s something very interesting about how a todo app is right there helping you get things done and when you check them off. Great moment to treat yourself.
This would be along with free random loot drops still + considering some form of Achievements to unlock a portion of them too like this, also free:
Making money via cosmetics is pretty experimental for a todo app, but I think it would drive me crazy if we never tried this.
What I like about this also is it shifts the center of gravity of our business towards the users who most love our app. Maybe it won’t add up to enough to pay the bills but I’m hopeful. How does that sound to you all?
And also because there’s something very interesting about how a todo app is right there helping you get things done and when you check them off. Great moment to treat yourself.
I think this is one of the things that makes Clear work for me in general. There’s always been a hint of gamification to it: get your work done and reward yourself with fun sounds and animations (and now loot!) as you check things off and clear them away.
I’m all for the collectible shop, and maybe throw some fonts in while you’re at it. I know there are a few in there I keep hoping to get on my next unlock.
I’m happy with a cheaper subscription model as I know devs need to pay bills. There’s no way a one-off purchase keeps the new Clear alive.
As an oldtime power user, had it on IPhone, Ipad and Mac, I cannot even remember what I did back then. I think I paid something to get 3 versions.
But I like to get back to my personal Basic thoughts:
Why did I like and use Clear in the first place?
I did go through the options but ended up with the basic orange color and that was it.
It worked but from a developers view, deadly boring.
Now to the pricing.
Problem is we the people don’t know what it costs to maintain an app as it is per year.
My thought is, nothing is for free and devs want to have an income, so
Let’s presume you team create this minimalistic very well overthought power app, that does what it needs to do, a to do extraordinary app.
What would it cost to maintain and have a provit part in it,with a reasonable amount of users?
Let’s presume 8 euro’s for maintenance and 2 euro’s for profit a year with the amount of users.
This would be 10 euro’s / dollars/ whatever, per year or maybe even 20 euro’s.
This is reasonable for getting something maintained and supported.
From a developers view this could be an option but also very boring!
Because looking at what the devs are up to now is very nice to see, there is excitement and joy.
But this is not permanent, at a certain point the app is finished and then this gattering of participation stops.
Back to the app, I enjoy the excitement of the moment too and was very happy my favorite app was alive, But:
Personally I’m boring and don’t use all the bells and whistles, and don’t use all the text enhancement futures.
I don’t want to discover new hidden gems of bells and whistles.
I would like the app to work like a charm, be out of my way and just rock solid.
I would pay an annual fee for that.
For all the bells and whistles I would have a form of in app purchase.
Small extra thought: I just looked on my phone and there are 182 apps on it, I maybe use 20 regular and the rest once a year. If they where all subscription based, I would have just 20 !!
So, I think it should definitely be tiered.
Free - includes up to about 100 items or lists
$19.99/year - the most bought one, has most features a person would need. unlimited lists, items etc.
$34.99/year - pro version which gives you access to premium themes (revenue share with designers), some more pro features.
you also make additional revenue by selling premium themes. $0.99/theme, for example.
You need to model this backwards and include your costs for keeping the app alive & running, and make sure each of these are profitable and have great unit economics.
N.B. The free one is just enough for someone to get hooked onto the system. You’ll need to gather data on what makes a person 100% likely to be an active user, for example, on the 90th day.
I think with subscriptions the key is to link it to a strong value prop. Paying for content updates (e.g., Calm with new meditations) makes sense. Paying for data subscriptions (e.g., weather apps) makes sense. Paying for cloud collaboration can make sense (i.e., your shared list feature). Paying for bug fixes and feature updates can be a bitter pill, but the Agenda team’s model is user friendly and probably the best to imitate.
I’ll throw my hat into this ring.
put exclusive task completions behind a paywall. For example: Make line items explode, or fade, or turn to dust, or burst into a rainbow, or get sliced a la fruit ninja, or get frozen in carbonite, or scribbled, or erased, or rubber band snapped away, on and on and on…
I would pay for the app over again and then some if it actually gave me a hit of dopamine when I completed line items.
Task completion and clearing animations could be a fun cosmetic category to add. I’d consider buying those if I could, say, preview them in a shop to see which ones I liked. If the recently removed confetti doesn’t come back as part of loot drops (or even if it does, really), that could be an avenue for offering it to users who like it.
I strongly disagree with this suggestion
to require a recurring payment for the privilege of filling my device storage with lists. It’s my storage, not yours. There’s no justification for a subscription in that, as I see it.
