Clear Pro (And Syncing)

I’ll be very constructive:

(1)

My big concern is that subscription model will pressure you into constantly adding features to justify the subscription price. That will inevitably lead to bloatware, feature creep, reduce performance, make UX worse, introduce bugs…

Clear is amazing because it’s simple, beautiful and does one thing amazingly well.

If you keep adding features to Photoshop or Word year after year, it probably won’t matter much. They have thousands of features and a few more don’t change things noticeably.
But simplicity is EVERYTHING for Clear!

I’m not sure there is a good way around this. Most services either have material costs that justify subscription (e.g. Dropbox), keep adding features and innovating, for better or for worse (think Adobe) or have huge expenses just for operating (like journalists).

(2)

Some say the price is okay, for some it’s too much. In some countries that is a reasonable amount of money, in some countries (like mine) it’s way too much as our standard is significantly lower.

But even without taking any of that into account, this subscription needs to be looked at in context – and the context is that it’s yet ANOTHER subscription thrown on the pile of existing ones.

Many of us are noticing that more and more of our paychecks is going to various subscriptions and the trend is worrying. Hearing that something is switching to subscription without a very good and clear reason makes me instantly feel repulsion and rebellion. I cancel if I can… And I’m not the only one.

At the very least, make the subscription price below the psychological limit of 1$, e.g. 0.99$/mo.

I know it may seem little, but that’s the point!

Most of users wouldn’t bat an eyelid on that price, but it still makes sense for you economically because you develop the software once and sell it many times.

You want the maximum number of users going for the subscription. It won’t incur any additional cost to you (as far as I can tell), so maximizing sales makes sense. The relationship is not linear and would take some experimentation to determine, but it’s very much possible that reducing the price 3x would increase number of users more than 3x, thereby making more profit for you.

(3)

Most of people here are fans of Clear and we fully recognize and support the need for you to be compensated for your hard work.

I’m also a huge fan. I switched from Android just to be able to use Clear years ago! I don’t know why, but I’m just inexplicably drawn to it.

I want to support you, and I wanted to support you even in the Clear 1.x era.

But it may be possible that it just isn’t realistic that you can fully support yourself (or the team) for years with money earned from Clear without destroying the app experience (and therefore the app) by the pressure to constantly develop it. The problem is that this is difficult to know in advance.

I think this is crucial to recognize because bloating the app would destroy it and stop you from doing what you wanted – living off it! We would all be worse off in the end.

(4)

Is there a way around it? Possibly.

Option 1: Clear could (should) cost money to buy. One user wrote “when I need a hammer, I want to buy a hammer”. This would be buying the hammer.
I would happily pay 20, or 30, or even 50$ one time to use it.

This model wouldn’t force you to keep adding features. You could develop it to a reasonable point and then just fix when necessary, like iOS changes.

When big changes are needed in the farther future, you could publish 3.x and charge again. Apps like Halide use this approach.

Option 2: In-app purchases which unlock feature packs, sync, themes, whatever. Many apps use this model.

Option 3: Allow us to easily donate any amount to you, the developer, at any time. I value some apps and services so much that I regularly donate to them, amounts which I can afford. Other people donate different amounts.
When people aren’t pressured into it, they can be surprisingly generous. In my case, it’s services like Signal and software like FreeFileSync.

These options aren’t mutually exclusive and could all be used together.

It’s impossible to predict how much you’d earn. It’s possible you’d need another project to earn enough. But I think it’s preferable than the huge risk of going to the subscription model which would lead to bloatware and/or be hard to justify to the users.

(5)

As a final thought, no matter which path you end up choosing, even if it’s subscription – please don’t keep adding features (or AI, god forbid!) just for the sake of appearances!

A lot of good software has been made less useful or even destroyed by feature creep. (Think Evernote.)

We love you and hope that Clear will have a long and successful future! :blue_heart:

7 Likes

Have you tried iPhone mirroring on Mac?

1 Like

I agree it’s important not to have unhealthy pressure to keep adding things into Clear that aren’t justified. Some other models like semi-regular paid updates would probably most feed into that.

It kind of boils down to it being very important we secure recurring revenue from our ‘hardcore’ that get the most ongoing value / productivity boost from the app, and ultimately the membership would check this off.

The key part is it will have to healthily retain its subscribers, by providing enough value in return. But I’m hopeful sync in particular, and some features like Apple Watch for those who love it there will help anchor this.

There are also a number of ‘pro features’ to get to that I think will not really risk diluting the app’s simplicity, in how separated or opt-in they are. Robust shortcuts support is a solid example that we’ve started some work on, and will return to probably later this year.

The problem with more one-time purchases for us, is that Clear isn’t growing at a fast rate (in users). If it were, it could be a more calculated gamble, that we can keep growing fast enough to sustain ongoing costs. But it definitely doesn’t feel like we’re set up for this path as it is.

Donations, I am just not as optimistic on. I feel the shop experiment overlapped enough with donations where it’s really difficult to see donationware performing better than that… and it just makes me think for example, how I’ve never once donated to Wikipedia in my life. (I know, shame on me :sweat_smile:)

Finally on the feature creep, I feel I learned some lessons there with the 2.0 relaunch in the first place… pulling a number of those features retroactively into Clear Pro is a bit of a correction in itself. Overall, we are going to be a lot more careful and patient with rolling out new features moving forward.

On AI, it makes sense to me for Clear to properly integrate with Apple Intelligence/Siri, but of course Apple themselves have a lot of work left to do there. But I trust their medium term vision is a lot more coherent and cohesive than what’s been trickling out so far. (E.g. makes sense to me that someday, you can ask Siri to do pretty much anything you could do yourself across various apps, and it can just handle it for you.)

1 Like

I don’t get it (but I’m not a dev either): why is iCloud Sync such a complicated feature that takes months to develop and requires intense resources to maintain?

Every simple and free app on the App Store has it – even apps that haven’t been updated in years.

This is a text app; just a few lines of text and it’s order need to be synced. What’s so complicated about it? Even indie apps with only one developer have had it from day one.

It seems like we’re treating it as something revolutionary, but it’s just something that Apple has greatly simplified the implementation of, and that any free or one-time purchase app has always had!

5 Likes

Once the business side is more figured out with Pro, the big remaining problem to solve is ‘distribution’. Clear needs to do a better job of reaching new people to not slowly dwindle over time, and I think the most obvious and natural way will be collaborative listing and shared lists.

I realize there are people who will feel they won’t ever need Clear Web or collaboration functionality, but collab done well feels kind of critical for Clear’s longterm future and it will be much more useful if you can share a list with anyone. Going iCloud would made sync by itself much simpler to implement, but basically walls us in on the collab side.

Will also note it was a nightmare trying to support iCloud sync issues in the 1.x, it is such a black box that when things go wrong, it’s very difficult to debug. I think I probably answered over a thousand support emails over the years, and the best I could offer was an annoying set of steps to wipe Clear’s iCloud entirely and try to resync it from local data.

1 Like

Ok, you know better than I do what the best strategy is.

But I think you’re making a mistake (especially in terms of costs) by not taking advantage of the tools that Apple provides.

iCloud has evolved a lot over the last few years. I don’t recall having any problems with any app (although I don’t use many)!

Clear is an iOS app. I think it would also be much simpler to port it to Mac using the tools that Apple provides than to develop an entire web infrastructure plus your own sync.

Clear could be an app that works on iOS, iPad, and Mac with native iCloud support, without significant costs to you – the same app across all three platforms.

Just my 2 cents! :sweat_smile:

2 Likes

It is pretty complicated and hard to predict, but we are doing our best to navigate through it. I know there was some other considerations involved, like Clear is pretty invested in another data format than Apple’s latest.

What you raised was a serious discussion we had as a team at least a couple times during the sync development (one teammate has some experience with the basic iCloud sync with the latest Apple tech in one of his apps and shared his experience there), so it’s a good question. If it turns out we made a mistake, we will try to correct it, and you can deal me a deserved I told you so.

Btw I think it’s worth noting that the membership is ultimately meant to carry the overall cost of production for Clear, include ongoing development of the free core of it. So the server usage / infrastructure costs are one part of it, but I feel like it’s reasonable that recouping larger fixed costs or future investments like a new Mac client is a big part of it too.

im sure id be one of many that would have mixed feelings about this. as someone who has mac, iphone, ipad, watch, having it synched across them all using native apps would be great. but on the other hand, id choose the simplicity of clear web so that i can access my lists from a work pc. at the moment im putting off looking for other workrounds to having checklists on my pc so that hopefully clear web appears and i can do it all in one place.

2 Likes

Yes. It’s not really an elegant solution that I would ever use daily.

2 Likes

Just a quick general update – we are busy here wrapping up the Clear Pro update. Shooting for a little TestFlight to sanity check things later this week or early next and it would be great to have some of you check it over.

Will of course post here when that’s ready!

6 Likes

Can icons, themes, etc. that have already been paid at the shop be used permanently?

2 Likes

I assume that yes, it will not go anywhere and will not disappear, for customers who have a professional subscription, there will be special items for a month that can be selected for installation, and then they will disappear. And therefore it will be possible cyclically. I assume that they will also be in the store, and you can choose them for free, since you have a subscription. Phill, as mentioned above, what if you like one of the items in a professional subscription, and people vote to add it to the store for purchase, and there will be a lot of them, then maybe it can just appear in the store for purchase and use it forever.

1 Like

This is mostly correct, just that the monthly collectibles will be a section in each personalize section vs. shop distribution. (Could see us putting the monthly ones on sale in the shop for permanent unlock.) But yeah @Goodclear any purchases are permanently unlocked/accessible!

1 Like

Oh, it’s even interesting. No, I didn’t see it, I just assumed that maybe some collectibles from Pro may end up in the store later for purchase forever. (I’m not talking about all items, some)

Reminder: not available to EU folks

3 Likes

Yes, indeed. Frustrating. iPhone mirroring not available in EU

1 Like

それは面白そうですね!

1 Like

Sorry if these questions already have been asked and maybe even answered in this forum.

If I go PRO, can I create a synchronized list and share it with a user of the free version? Can I for example share a shopping list where all I share that list to can mark an item as bough and everyone will know.

Also is that discount offered legacy users a one time discount or is it for lifetime?

1 Like

A question regarding syncing. I’m seeing a lot about syncing with iPhone/Mac, but what about iPhone/iPad? That’s the syncing I’m interested in. I’ve never used Clear on a Mac but used to use it all the time on my iPad

New to the forum. Clear works great. I’m ok paying a bit to ensure it keeps going.

3 Likes